Since zombie oarsmen are taboo...

Let us enslave the living and whip them within an inch of their lives to drive our vessels forward (or pay them meager wages if we need to be goody two shoes about it). Let us make them work in adverse conditions, putting their lives on the line, always risking their very existence so we may travel the seas in pursuit of glory and treasure...

Hey wait a minute... Wouldn't that be evil to risk the lives of the innocent in such a way? I have a better idea let's use the dead and have them drive our vessels forward... errr no wait that wasn't a good thing either...

Perspective is such a scary thing...

You start using zombie slaves and suddenly all the trade unions are up in arms about unfair business practices and flooding the markets with cheap undead labour. Suddenly no one is employed and the poor can no longer buy the loot you sieze while pirating, or the ships no longer can trade because peasants can no longer afford your trade goods after losing their jobs to zombies.

peasants in cities can't afford food so farmers facing gluts and lower prices stop planting so much and famine ensues.

chaos insues.

Zombies aren't actually evil or even inherently homicidal. They are essentially robots. Smelly, creepy robots. They have no wills of their own; they follow instructions.

So what is the problem with exploiting them? A robot is a tool just like a hammer.

Of course, no one wants to see a zombie that was formerly someone known. Possible solution: conceal their identifying features so they become anonymous. Or polymorph them into more normal-looking humanoids.

The other problem is the idea that they are rotting, for rotting things are almost universally avoided--for practical reasons. But we're not going to eat them or have food nearby.

One other objection might be that the soul of the person whose body has become animated might not be at proper rest. This is a legitimate concern, but is it true? We could find out.

Are we seriously considering the use of zombies as slaves? Where do you get them from if you don't make them? This is crazy.

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But if we are going to be crazy...Basically you could convert your human population into zombies. At first the rich would buy zombie slaves to do the things that their present labour does. But like Lalanne says, you don't want rotting corpses around your food stuffs or your clean things. This means that the cheap labour would be limited to things like garbage disposal, trench digging, orc baiting, mill turning etc. So the live population would then have to migrate to better jobs in the service industry or as technical experts. Those who couldn't make the transition would be converted into zombies. This actually sounds like the "untouchable" caste from India...maybe we should just go to India and import some live "zombies" like the untouchables?

honestly I don't think they would be useful for much more than digging, dragging etc, they don't have the fine motor skills needed to make chain, be a smith, they are unable to syncronize enough to row in a team and they are too dumb to follow rules and would undboubtedly collapse any mine they worked in eventually.

even though I'm probably not allowed if I could i would probably only use them for combat and cage them safely away from the masses at other times.

We don't have the power to make zombies and our only intention had been for steve to use his new control item to collect any from hot spots in the region. Making zombies would be much more evil than simply taking them where we found them.

New topic
Since we probably have close to a year of hiatus to deal with, making a little list of those things you wish to achieve for Jonathan would be a good thing.

I would like people to consider where they would like their personal keeps

how much of their time they will spend training our troops better,

If they'd like to go on an embassy to some of our neighbors

If they want to sign on to one of the ships for the whole year so we have a competent sailor us for furture need. etc.


As for keeps I'm thinking we will eventually be building extensive stone walls and each of our keeps would be an anchor point along that wall. My keep I'm planning to place on the highground near the temple with a wall enclosing the temple, its and mine living area, the semenary, orphanage, making my initial build bigger than just a keep.

I think others should pick points out from our current walls where the larger walls will eventually go, Someone however should build on the shore to protect from landings and guard our ships. Perhaps just the other side of the river mouth.

Hmmm...what if they have a powerful cleric or undead who could wrest control from us?

...maybe we shouldn't be giving Jonathan ideas?

With animal control spells/devices maybe we could get whales or sharks to help pull the boat.

On land... Yes... Elephants are too big and costly for us to maintain. Rhinos however... (kidding)

As much fun as these living things are, they need air, food and water. Undead are a far better alternative.

Since the party will object to using undead, if we want to look into animals for defense, we should look at raising a standard cavalry for starters. Maybe get a dog to guard the front door. Cats could help with the rodent problem.

I'm sorry but, we start off with Zombie powered long ships and are now reduced to very pedestrian alternatives. That said I'll give it some thought... sigh...

Maybe we should do some research and see if we can figure out how to make living ships that will row themselves. Then all we need to do is find some way of feeding them...maybe leaves and stuff. Some movie or tv show had something like that, and it was in a book i recently read. Then because it is purpose designed/built we have no moral or ethical dilemma with using or making it. And best of all, we could then license manufacturers (or make our own shipyard) and supply the navies of the world.

As Carter mentions "unscrupluous" zombie providers would most likely procure new zombies from the homeless and those least likely to be missed. I imagine that all penalties for breaking the law would eventually be ramped up to the death penalty as well. Zombies would certainly be an economic benefit, but there is a huge ethical dilemma attached. As it stands now, if your washing machine breaks, you don't have to worry if someone will die when you replace it.