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kubera

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PostSubject: explaination   Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:33 pm

Can anybody explain why burning hands, shocking grasp, colour spray representing the generation of light, heat and electrical energy are all alteration but
fire ball, cone of cold, lightning bolt are evocation?

The only difference is one is created at ones finger tips the other at some distance

Then you get Shatter that ruins the pattern being alteration with a range. This makes no ##@$$%# sense.
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Wilhelm

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PostSubject: Re: explaination   Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:34 pm

I found a definition of both... It doesn't help me with an answer but, it may help you.

Alteration: Alteration changes the physical laws of the universe in a limited area in a limited way; thus dimensions (including time), inertia and kinetic energy, forces (gravity, electricity etc.) can be altered. This can affect creatures, items, areas and pretty much anything.

Evocation: Evocation spells work with energies and forces (but not living creatures) from the inner planes other than the Prime Material. Though it can use forces from the Negative Plane, it doesn't allow the wizard to work with life-forces.

Both can effect energies and forces... Why are the spells in one vs the other? I still dunno.
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kubera

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PostSubject: Re: explaination   Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:52 pm

my point exactly,, you can source energies by changing local laws of physics, or tapping other primal planes, As a mage with a personal ideology maybe this makes a difference as far as a player is concerned ya just wanna make things go booom!!!

perhaps those with more control require alteration but those channeling brute force go Evocation.

So as a transmuter I would make new fire spells alteration just cause I like it better and get a bonus, not because that's the way it should be done.

That's fine,, I'm writing up larger area fire spells for DM approval.. I figure me and Castanet can work on it together to kill the long boat ride.
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Wilhelm

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PostSubject: Re: explaination   Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:59 pm

I like your suggestion that Alteration spells are used in close - it implies a mild leaning towards defensive natured spells. But Shatter screws that up - sort of. Shatter does not do damage to life forms (except crystal based) and maybe that's the rationale - Distance spells that do not do damage to life forms can be alteration?????!!!????

To me, Shatter sounds like an evocation (an evocation of sound energy) but, what do I know.
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kubera

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PostSubject: Re: explaination   Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:05 pm

yes but if shatter has a V component you are simply altering that sound and making it much louder and damaging,

they created these categories to allow specialists but did a piss poor job

specialists should have been

divination
illusion
conjurer-er , summoner
elementalist
necromancer
Charmster
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SteveL
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PostSubject: Re: explaination   Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:57 pm

Evocation spells bring forth energy (Charles Olsen, "The Many Types of Magic", Dragon #89, Sept. 1984) but do not create matter (exceptions seem to include cloudkill, ice storm, stinking cloud, wall of ice/iron/stone, and web, all evocation spells which summon matter).

According to Olsen's analysis, alteration appears to be a catch-all group (it contains more spells than any other magic type). Alas, he is not able to locate a true commonality among alteration spells that would define these spells distinctly from those of the other groups. He tries by asking whether alteration spells alter their targets, but finds that this fits just about every spell.
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