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 anyone up to see a $5 speaker in Barrie.

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kubera

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PostSubject: anyone up to see a $5 speaker in Barrie.   Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:21 pm

If anyone reads the work of Stoneleigh from the automatic earth blog (a rather well known writer in the doomer/economic contrarian circles) she is putting on a talk in Barrie Sat night, anyone who wants to go, could come up this far and I'll drive the rest.

Event info

http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2011/01/january-17-2011-story-of-how-we-begin.html
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PostSubject: Re: anyone up to see a $5 speaker in Barrie.   Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:45 pm

The Barrie site mentions the 17th-century Dutch tulip trade bubble; as it happens, this spring I came across a review of a book that contends it was caused by government intervention (as are all bubbles, apparently: see the Austrian business-cycle theory).

I'm not holding the blurb-writer responsible for the blogger/speaker's words, but his loaded statement that "Our industrial system has nearly destroyed the individual capacity for self-reliance" is probably wrong. Industry and individualism are complementary facets; self-reliance is for the free. Our politico-legal system tends to diminish individual responsibility. The answer is liberty.

As for the blog post, the author states that "it's as simple as it is clear: America is no longer able to have a sensible conversation with itself about events as dramatic as these [Tuscon spree shootings]. Americans in general don't seem to be able to think and feel for themselves anymore, they go through the processes of anger and sorrow according to scripts dictated to them by their media. 'What am I supposed to think? Please tell me'."

A bit presumptuous, no? She doesn't seem to think much of ordinary people--sometimes a warning sign of crankishness.

I don't know what this paragraph means: "Still, the death of a nine-year-old girl will in the end never be about politics, not even on Martin Luther King Day. Ever wonder how many Americans have any idea what Dr. King stood for?"

Based on this post, I don't think the author is a good writer or thinker. Am I being unfair? Maybe you can find something better from her.
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PostSubject: Re: anyone up to see a $5 speaker in Barrie.   Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:47 pm

Interestingly, one of her (?) links is to Bill Bonner's site. He's written for Lew Rockwell (a leading libertarian/Austrian site). She can't be all bad, heh heh.
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kubera

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PostSubject: Re: anyone up to see a $5 speaker in Barrie.   Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:44 pm

the site is actually a colaboration, I think the first stonleigh article is actually about 3 posts back, the writers for auto earth don't always agree with each other.
http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2011/01/1-11-11-future-belongs-to-adaptable.html

You don't have to believe everything someone says to hear them out, for one I see Stoneleigh as a total deflationist while I still see many opportunites for hyper inflation.

I am however interested in her discussions on energy issues and societal adaptation to a more sustainable life.
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PostSubject: Re: anyone up to see a $5 speaker in Barrie.   Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:03 am

kubera wrote:
the site is actually a colaboration [...]
Yeah, it's somewhat confusing.

kubera wrote:
[...] I see Stoneleigh as a total deflationist while I still see many opportunites for hyper inflation. [...]
She thinks there will be deflation? Will the Keynesians allow deflation?
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PostSubject: Re: anyone up to see a $5 speaker in Barrie.   Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:21 am

Then again, Aaron Wissner's use of the term industrial system to paraphrase Foss (the blogger at The Automatic Earth known as Stoneleigh) could be to refer to state-business collusion (e.g., monopolies, subsidies, tariffs)--in which case the "individual capacity for self-reliance" would be eroded or curtailed, contrary to what I wrote earlier. For example, if self-reliance (or self-sufficiency or independence) is limited by one's wealth, taxes must erode self-reliance, and monopolies and tariffs, by reducing competition, must also reduce wealth and therefore independence. Ilargi (the other blogger at The Automatic Earth) does in fact discuss such collusion--in the form of political influence bought with campaign contributions made by big business.

On the other hand, self-reliance could mean Emerson's notion of intellectual independence. This would tie into Ilargi's point about Americans wanting to be told what to think in "The story of how we begin to remember", the post you linked to above. If so, Wissner's statement ("Our industrial system has nearly destroyed the individual capacity for self-reliance") is unclear to me. Perhaps it's Gatto's thesis that public schools are intended to produce obedient, compliant, unskeptical graduates/consumers suitable for "corporate and political management".
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kubera

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PostSubject: Re: anyone up to see a $5 speaker in Barrie.   Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:12 am

well I don't know the totality of this sites work, I just sample now and then but I would expect Self Reliance to mean what it means to most writers in the Doomer genre.

Self reliance is not IMO about "intellectual Independence" it is more about re-skilling the populous and re-localizing the economy so that people, communities and regions are less dependent on the outside for the basics of life.

We've had the discussion before about complex societies, complex systems, globalization and the dangers such interdependency creates. You always claim the market will adjust, perhaps it may in time. That however is little solace to those hurt before such adjustments are made in a time of crisis. (economic, environmental, climate, financial)

Of course many people don't trust that the system can or will adjust, but that's a different discussion. If there is profit in pain or dysfunction some corporations will milk it rather than fix it.

Many of those who talk about self reliance are trying to build resiliency into communities so that base needs can be meet regardless of what kind of crisis interrupts the normal economy. Such things include growing more local food, creating local currencies or barter economies, joining local food or power co-ops or even paying extra to maintain the production of some product close to home where you will not loose access to it. Say a craft brewer or a local miller to make flour. A fair bit of the drive from herbal medicine types is survival rather than a preference for natural remedies
Sometimes efficiency is less important than food or energy security.

Most of these people are not as anti government as you, but do understand, regardless of their level of love for a nanny state, that the possibility that governments or banks will fall, default or be unable to assist in a crisis is real. They don't desire the perfect freedom you preach but none-the-less they are working towards and achieving some level of freedom and security.

Self reliance as told by Doomers could be seen as survivalism lite, they see the dangers but refuse to isolate themselves and bunker up, instead they largely work to adapt their local environment buy educating themselves and their communities of the dangers and the skills needed to survive and maintain a functional society.

this is essentially what I've been preaching in my blog for a couple of years as well as my association with the Transition Town network. A lot of people are listening and agree the dangers are there. However current comfort and fear of change however limits ones ability to bring them to talking about it to taking concrete action. People are acting in small ways, gardening and home canning have really taken off in the last couple years. There has even been shortages of certain kinds of seed favored by those who don't want to buy genetically altered/hybridized or patented seeds. People want the right to plant the seed they harvest in their own gardens and not get sued for it.
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