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Wilhelm

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PostSubject: Free for all   Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:51 pm

Please note the party has the following items to dispense with once you've finished mourning the loss of your beloved Harcourt...

55.7 pounds of Adamantite
Long Sword - Frost Brand
Short Sword +1
Bracers AC6
Cloak of Protection +1
K-ointment (unused)
Gloves of dexterity
Wand of Wonder
4 holy water
2 healing potions
Clairvoyance potion
ESP potion
Animal Control Potion
Oil of ??????? (I was never told what it is but we do know)
Teleport Scroll
Extension 1 scroll
A bunch of gems and gp - 1952 gp worth
IOU's to Rotok 2000gp and Mopar 4000gp
Spellbook that no one can read
A whole bunch of mundane non-magical crap

Look for a wish spell or I will roll up a new character - I'm rolling now...
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kubera

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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:42 pm

you didn't have a bad collection for such a short time.



No such things as gloves of dex in the books,, sure its not gloves of theivery?
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Wilhelm

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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:58 pm

DMs guide 1st edition pg 145

Gauntlets not gloves
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kubera

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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:50 pm

you already sold me the short sword its in the city armoury
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Wilhelm

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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:58 pm

I sold you a +1 long sword.
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kubera

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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:53 am

ok, me confused.
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kubera

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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:56 am

So first things first,,

We need to head on up to Greyhawk and get a resurrection, Ulthor and anybody else who wants can take the Fugly orc
and head straight to the city. I'll take the new ship home (we can travel
together as far as Cridastan) start cleaning it up and to burry the marine.
Even if we wanted to pay the price I don't think we could get the marine to a
city before he went off. Raise dead is one day per level.

Ulthor
mentioned getting us hooked up, how much for a resurrection

for for
comparison what would a raise dead cost?


I don't remember any other
true deaths in our campaigns, at least not ones where the body was recovered
(Uggmug). We don't know about his past and I'm going looking, so what do we
do?

[Party members need families and/or wills]

Should we do draws
for his stuff? or tally up the real value of all his stuff, assign everybody a
virtual GP share and then let people dice for the right to purchase those items
they want, if they buy more than their share they pay with their own money,
those that don't get or don't want an item will be paid out by the
winners.

A interesting aside, is the memory of the soul more complete
than the memory of the body. Now that he's dead does he know who he was???
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Wilhelm

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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:13 pm

Quote :
A interesting aside, is the memory of the soul more complete
than the memory of the body. Now that he's dead does he know who he was???

Cast speak with dead and find out (Jonathan now gets to answer metaphysical questions about life, the universe and everything).

Harcourt may be important enough back home that someone would be willing to pay for a wish to bring him back. Or you guys could simply spring for one (if you can find one). Alternately his passing may have reunited him with loved ones and he's happier now...
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Jonathan

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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:41 pm

Wilhelm wrote:
Alternately his passing may have reunited him with loved ones and he's happier now...



Memories of Buffy...



Actually though, as I was looking through the spells last night, I discovered that resurrection will not work on elves (just about every other demi-human though), so Doug's poor roll is academic, as the only way to bring him back would be a rod of ressurrection. Ulthor's connections have access to the spell, but not a rod. You could try and buy one, but they would most likely be VERY expensive, should you even be able to find someone who has one.
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Wilhelm

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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:25 pm

Well that's not so bad then... ???

Harcourt is not permanently dead as we had no way of bringing him back. If we find someone with a rod of resurrection we can give it a try at that point (save a small piece of the body somewhere safe in town).

Ultimately the use of the rod of resurrection must be less expensive than a wish and additionally no $$ was spent on the resurrection attempt as it would not work. It's getting better all around.

If he does come back, either Harcourt or my new character will likely need to be moved into a non-playing status but the skills and knowledge will still be available to the town.

Let's try the speak with dead and find out if he knows who he was. If he does remember who he was, and he does get brought back with amnesia, all you need to do is debrief him and we have saved a 6 month trip. Who knows one of his old friends may have a rod of resurrection in the basement next to the sphere of annihilation and the ring of wishes.

Harcourt's stuff would go along way to paying for the rod of resurrection usage.
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kubera

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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:59 am

Obviously the disadvantage of being an elf a is quite sizable. Its a great race to be born a king [1000 years of hedonism BABY! ] but sucks if you are risking your life on a regular basis, you can almost see the queen of Selene's point.

We still have the reincarnation option, Harcourt the badger I like the sound of that.

or you can finish rolling up your halfling illusionist ninja
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Wilhelm

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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:07 pm

Quote :
or you can finish rolling up your halfling illusionist ninja

Neutral Evil. You forgot to mention the Neutral Evil part.



I think the party should go buy a rod of resurrection. According to the books they cost the same as a wand of magic missiles and only 40% more than a wand of fire. Actually - a ring of multiple wishes would be the same price as the wand of fire - we should just buy 2 of those and we could have some real fun.

But realistically, who was the moron that priced the items in the first edition DMs guide??? A vorpal weapon is worth twice what a ring of multiple wishes shows in the book. Buy the ring, wish for the sword and get something nice with the extra wishes.
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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:19 pm

Wilhelm: given Jonathan's assessment above, finding a rod, let alone buying one, seems unlikely. Carrow , in-game, doesn't know such an item exists (he's a hick), which bites.

The pricing of items: I read an interview or an explanation somewhere--I'll try and find it and post it. However, I do know that the price doesn't equal rarity: I've come across scores of wands of magic missiles, multiple vorpal swords, and only one ring of multiple wishes since 1976.

Jonathan I thought according to 2nd edition spells, Resurrection was the only spell that could return life to an elf (an old argument settled somewhere in the pages of Dragon Magazine), or am I reading something out of context?

Concerning Harcourt's items:

Why don't we divide Harcourt's stuff by need? Carrow needs the +1 cloak to improve his bad AC and, if no front line fighter can actively use the sword, the Frost Brand to help out and survive melee encounters.

I think we should divide the healing should Ulthor or I go down.

Do we divide the adamantite evenly?




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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:20 pm

I would think that before anything is divided Harcourts IOUs need to be cleared off, 2000 and 4000 worth of adam or gems to both Mopar and Rotok





Secondly is there anything of magical value on the pirate crew to fill out the treasure choices.?



It is more rational to divide stuff up by need in order to ensure the survivabilty of the party members, provided everyones needs are met over the long term, that said we've never managed to cooperate this way to any great extent.



Is anyone willing to put utility first? I for one will ignore the sword and/or cloak in order to better balance the party, Hell there's not much here that will do more than enrich me.
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Wilhelm

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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:46 am

My rant was simply pointing out that some of the prices in the guide are dumb - how could a wish with it's immense flexibility be worth less than an item you could wish for?

As far as Harcourt goes... He is not permanently dead anymore (what a strange statement), there seems to be an unexplored duty to look into ways to bring him back. Division of stuff should be a last resort.

I would suggest the following:
Cast speak with dead - Find out about his wants and family (if he remembers now)
Take a look around for a rod of resurrection or a wish (The game is about finding the unfindable)
If that fails - worry about treasure division

When it gets to treasure division Carter is correct - IOUs go first
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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:12 am

Doug, most of the comments here are meta containing far more knowledge about what is possible than our group of wealthy peasants could possibly know, you cannot assume characters know all that exists, for Rild each new magic we find is a wonder to behold

If the information Ulthor(jonathan) gives me is accurate on these issues (what other authority do I have) a Rod and I suppose a wish would be our only choices and hugely expensive if available at all. If we tripped over a rod or a wish I would probably use them for you provided nothing more urgent (my town, my religion) required their use. I would not however go on a 3 year crusade looking for such a cure leaving my town and my faith undefended. I have a purpose.

META
I seem to remember the rod works on charges and a human fighter is like 1 charges and a magic using elf is something stupid like 7 or 8 charges of the device. If a raise would cost 5k, bringing back an elf mage could clean you out. Of course this will be futile because the rod brings you back as per a Resurrection
spell and you've already failed your roll for that. The Rod will fail. A wish and
therefore a mage that is willing to age himself for a perfect stranger
is what we need to find.


So yes its possible that you could be brought back at some exorbitant price that would leave you with no gear or leave you or even the party indentured to someone who might have his own political agenda.

I would gladly pay for a simple raise and not even worry about repayment but I'd be leery of spending the resources needed to defend my town or make open ended promises to someone selling your life back. However because you have your own resources -

We'll talk to your corpse and see if you really want out of "heaven" aka Buffy's pain.

Find out if you now know who you are

Would you accept reincarnate as an option? (you might get something usable or you might become a NPC town pet)

I will send your fetid corpse and all your gear to town with Libram and Soloman and they can spin their wheels trying to find your "cure" to being dead, liquidating everything if need be, or coming back with a list of missions that might get you back,, In the mean time what will you do?

Looking at roll playing

As for our duty to bring you back how do we gauge that? Its rather subjective and would not necessarily be universal between all players as each of us has our own agenda/priorities, character.
example ::: the marine that just died has been in my/our employ for 3-4 years, I've spend as much time in his company taking cruises as I've know Harcourt. I've spend my time on board working with the sailors, training the troops, so I knew this fellow reasonably well, I lived with him, fought beside him, and maybe he's even a convert I see at Crida mass all the time.

We do have a party scroll of raise dead which I would have used on Harcourt if human. Had the scroll belonged to me I'd have used it on the soldier out of loyalty. The scroll however is party treasure and I cannot presume to use against everyone else's self interest (aka their future deaths)

If we were closer to greyhawk I'd probably take him there and have him raised but with a 1day/level limitation on death, Ulthor would probably advise me our chances of finding such a high level cleric would be doubtful.

Even when Ulthor gets raise dead would he honestly use it on anything but his closes friends unless they were of his religious flavour???/
Just because priest can raise dead would they?

For Rild his order of duty would be
his god, his high priestess and her little sisters

Family if he had any

3rd, the other Lords of Cridastan people who I've known and adventured with for 6-7 years I think, but even then Mopar as a convert to Cirda would get more consideration than say Soloman who won't dry out and leave Greyhawk long enough to help build or defend the town.
While I respect Ulthor I'm secretly disappointed he did not throw himself down, bask in the Glory that is Cirda and convert. Likewise the efficient and stoic Rotok might rate higher than Libram who's biggest concern was establishing the town brothel.

Non Lords of Cirdastan who adventure with us would be next but even that could be tempered by other factors,, how long they'd been with us, their behavior (alignment), are they a convert or dismissive of my goddess, are they investing only in themselves or actively working to better the town. A NPC adventurer, who is a Cirda worshiper and works selflessly for the town in his free time would probably rate much higher than Soloman

My soldiers, of course higher ranks and religious converts would rate higher

Its far too simplistic to assume any or all of us would spend our lives trying to give Harcourt back his.. The obligation or duty you mention is to Doug more so than Harcourt.

One issue to consider , if in 20 years in game time we find a wish and bring Harcourt back he will be 8 levels less than us so relatively useless, totally out of the political loop(culture shock), pissed off we spent his money, broke his sword and wore out his gloves and cloak. He might get so uppity that we didn't keep all his stuff in a museum for his eventual return that we end up killing him again affraid

What is the statute of limitation on property claims in a fantasy world where the dead don't stay that way???
The Lords of Cirdastan would do well to write a law on this.

would we refuse to raise him so we wouldn't have to deal with the issue that he's penny less and has no gear left?


Anyway we'll try to a point to get you back but don't complain when you're broke.
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Wilhelm

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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:42 pm

I enjoyed reading that.

Harcourt would be 7 charges on the rod. Bloody expensive.

The duty to Harcourt (I was thinking to Harcourt not myself)... Harcourt had proved his worth on several
occasions by making significant contributions to the parties adventuring efforts, town construction and information gathering. He was respectful of Cirda and worked in her service (although he did not make the leap to devout follower). It is based on that service that I am suggesting that you speak with the dead and that a couple of people make the trip to Greyhawk and do some inquiring BEFORE you split up the loot. That's it - I have no delusions of a multi-year quest. You are correct that the duty is subjective and would need to be considered by all of the Lords of Cirdastan. That said, it may still be utterly impossible to find the items needed to complete the task.

Let's exhaust the rod/wish options before we consider the reincarnate option. I think being dead might be a better option than recreating a character whose only tie to his former self is memory. If I have to re-roll all his stats, etc and have no loot why not just create a new character?

I just wanted to ensure that you would at least look after the low hanging fruit before you split up the treasure and ground up the body for use as fertilizer.
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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:33 pm

I would never compost a perfectly good elf that the dogs could eat.


We would not have divided your stuff without first trying but the fact your Res roll precludes your return by anything less than a wish I would expect your chances to be thin. Just being pragmatic.

I'd suggest a non elf next time OR the first item you should save up for is a amulet of life protection. By hiding the elf soul in the amulet after death for up to a week rather than sending off to the nether world I believe a raise would work on you.

I would need a ruling on that however.

personally I don't see the need to exclude elves from being raised, We've seen over many years of playing that elf fetishists will be an elf regardless of the drawbacks and others will never play anything but humans. The fear that everyone would play elves because they are "so damn good" was just Gygax trying to offset his pro elf biases.

An all elf party would be funny, since time means nothing to them all the big adventures would get solved by someone else while they dawdled about contemplating life the universe and everything.
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kubera

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PostSubject: Re: Free for all   Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:25 pm

Don't discount the magic user version of reincarnate

its all bipeds and 59% playable ones
6% dwarf
7 elf
5 gnome
7 1/2 elf
7 halfling
7 1/2 orc
14 human
5 ogre

while you might have a force able class change, Jonathan is less strict about such things as which classes can use which items and with any luck you might still own some of your stuff,,, you died with only a 5% chance you could still be a mage with about 30% of these races. Your knowledge and skills would remain just your physical attributed change.

If I was ruling and you got a dwarf I'd let you continue as a thief, maintain mage at that level and allow a new side class such as priest to be started. Similar accommodations with other races, 1/2 elf or elf continue as is
human become dual, freeze thief continue mage
etc

you can always kill yourself in dispare or go all kamikaze if you get kolbold troll or bugbear.
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